give me a break about the whole “soft” competition today…….Watson himself just said last nite that today’s players want it just as much as the guys from the past and he conceded that Tiger is the best ever…of course that is just one man’s opinion but its a pretty valid opinion from a credible man…
emncaity Said,
I’m a huge fan of Watson, but you’re confusing opinion and authority, perhaps tinged with promotion (because the Tour is all breathless trying to convince you that the 1Bs today are better than guys like Trevino, Watson before he was a #1, et al.) with hard evidence, such as it is on a question like this. You wanna get into it?
migtomsar2008 Said,
the commentator has it so wrong….ernie breaks his wrist early and just holds the break thru the backswing and downswing…he actually moves his hips first into the downwing and the full body rotation carries his arms into the swing…
probehero Said,
GET IN THE HOLE
PUArtista Said,
Did any of these players from yesteryear that played mutliple sports actually set records that we can measure in other sports…I think its funny that (to borrow a line from Jim Nantz) golf used to be “lily white” for a long time and its b/c of the same thinking that kept people out like a Tiger dont want to give Tiger the respect earned….count em’
RK831 Said,
Beautiful extension of the right arm after impact. I see way too many chicken arms after impact on the golf course. Learn from this guy.
Polarcupcheck Said,
Of all the players I’ve seen in person, Els was the most impressive. His shots had this effortless but real heavy sound to them. And I’ve seen Tiger on the same day (when Els won) at Doral, Daly not to short after, and Duval as well. Also, Mickelson, Couples and Singh, I’ve seen. Davis Love III had a very pretty ball flight, but it wasn’t a powerful as Ernie’s. His swing is simply a deceptive beast.
acershund Said,
Ernie! You are da’ man! Great swing. Soft spoken, humble.. No big outbursts like Tiger. Great with family. A real champion.
emncaity Said,
He does when he’s playing well, yeah. But it does seem to me that the older he gets the more the lower body moves at the same instant the upper body starts to unwind, rather than fractionally before it. Also, watch how he bounces the shaft-arm angle just a tiny bit open at the start of the downswing (look at :13-15). That started about the time of his injury. About halfway down (:19 or so) he looks like a guy who’s slightly over the top–high right side, etc.
emncaity Said,
Ditto here. Love the guy.
emncaity Said,
Now that I can believe.
emncaity Said,
Absolutely true–that’s one aspect of his swing that hasn’t changed even slightly since his younger days.
emncaity Said,
Let me get this straight: Somebody insists Tiger is clearly the most superior athlete to ever play golf, and if anybody disagrees with that–even if that person posts specific examples of multisport athletes that show this to be unlikely–it must be because he’s a racist? Bite me.
What “records” do you need to be set? Hale Irwin was all all-conference d-back in the Big 8 (now the Big 12). Nicklaus played freshman basketball at Ohio State. Snead was a ridiculous athlete. And so on.
Polarcupcheck Said,
Most people still seem to believe in the “superior human being” crap. This comes from exposure to gym class in middle school when some people develop faster than others, and a few more start copying their older brothers doing pushups and running. Sure, genetic freaks exist, but for the most part, you good at what you do. Flexibility is as much talent as is strength. You cannot discredit a necessary abiltiy to perform an act. Comparing Tiger > Snead > Phelps > Yang Wei, is apples to oranges.
citiusaltiusfortiuz Said,
Well said, and that is the result of great physique + great patience + great swing mechanics. I find the head movement very interesting, not straight back and through, how he brings it back to his right when he whips the club through impact with strong arms/forearms. Superb.
SenorSpaceCowboy Said,
I had the pleasure of seeing his swing in person before. The television does not do him justice.
bonerfull Said,
People believe the all the marketing hype surrounding Tiger. They forget that like the news both the PGA and reporters are TOLD to use the approved ‘talking points’ handed to them by corporate sponsors. Tiger does NOT have ‘natural ability’ period. He has been practicing since a very small child. That was Hogans secret too. I feel sad for those who now have to face up that they got punked about Tiger by the media. Everyone on the inside knew. Tiger also excels at mental toughness – it’s key.
emncaity Said,
Boy, are you on point or what?
First, I’m amazed at how many people don’t get the fact that the Tour office is pushing product, and players are expected to help with that–even former players who play up the “these guys are GOOD” marketing line. Well, they are “good,” but they’re not necessarily any more skilled than the guys who played 50 years ago–but if you’re running the PGA Tour, telling the truth about that doesn’t push your product, does it?
emncaity Said,
Not only that, but as you say, the marketing is aimed at portraying not only superior skill but all-around good-guyness.
emncaity Said,
Re natural ability, I’d say Tiger has basic ability, but I think you’re right that his achievement has come because of tens of thousands of practice hours, combined with a childhood where he had the advantage of doing hardly anything other than preparing to be a championship player. I’m not sure he has as much natural ability as Mickelson, but he’s more disciplined in his approach and has been very focused and very smart in what he’s worked on since he’s been on tour.
emncaity Said,
As for mental toughness, you couldn’t be more right. When Hogan and Nicklaus were playing, the top 15 or 20 guys, maybe more, had that kind of toughness and killer instinct. Among current players, it seems that TW’s about the only one. If you look at his playoff record, his match play record, and his record when paired with another player who’s around the lead in a stroke-play event, it’s amazing how many players have just handed him a win with mediocre play–by far the majority of the time.
ROBMANDAM Said,
great point pal. i agree 100 percent. Woods has incredible mental tougheness, but his long hame is not all that compared to the likes of mickleson and els..
What tiger has is this incredible mental belief that he will hole every putt etc..and inverably he does…but hell never have the ability of els..
tiger2995 Said,
@emncaity You could be right…I do believe I read somewhere that Tiger was average at best at other sports in high school and college. I can’t remember where I read it but believe it was a credible source. I doubt someone with Tiger’s hand-eye co-ordination was a total duffer at other persuits but, as we’ve all seen this last couple of months, the guy IS human.
tiger2995 Said,
@emncaity I agree, not Mickelson, or for that matter, John Daly.
ShanksForEverything Said,
Genius is 1% inspiration, and 99% perspiration. Tiger has plenty of natural talent, but it is his dogged practice that makes him the best. Talent can only get you so far, but utilization of that talent can get you everywhere.
Now, to say he doesn’t have any natural talent is wrong, he does. He has a mental toughness, an ability to visualize shots, and an amazing knack to excel when the time is right. But you are correct, his practice (he practices about 10 hours a day) is why he’s the best.
give me a break about the whole “soft” competition today…….Watson himself just said last nite that today’s players want it just as much as the guys from the past and he conceded that Tiger is the best ever…of course that is just one man’s opinion but its a pretty valid opinion from a credible man…
I’m a huge fan of Watson, but you’re confusing opinion and authority, perhaps tinged with promotion (because the Tour is all breathless trying to convince you that the 1Bs today are better than guys like Trevino, Watson before he was a #1, et al.) with hard evidence, such as it is on a question like this. You wanna get into it?
the commentator has it so wrong….ernie breaks his wrist early and just holds the break thru the backswing and downswing…he actually moves his hips first into the downwing and the full body rotation carries his arms into the swing…
GET IN THE HOLE
Did any of these players from yesteryear that played mutliple sports actually set records that we can measure in other sports…I think its funny that (to borrow a line from Jim Nantz) golf used to be “lily white” for a long time and its b/c of the same thinking that kept people out like a Tiger dont want to give Tiger the respect earned….count em’
Beautiful extension of the right arm after impact. I see way too many chicken arms after impact on the golf course. Learn from this guy.
Of all the players I’ve seen in person, Els was the most impressive. His shots had this effortless but real heavy sound to them. And I’ve seen Tiger on the same day (when Els won) at Doral, Daly not to short after, and Duval as well. Also, Mickelson, Couples and Singh, I’ve seen. Davis Love III had a very pretty ball flight, but it wasn’t a powerful as Ernie’s. His swing is simply a deceptive beast.
Ernie! You are da’ man! Great swing. Soft spoken, humble.. No big outbursts like Tiger. Great with family. A real champion.
He does when he’s playing well, yeah. But it does seem to me that the older he gets the more the lower body moves at the same instant the upper body starts to unwind, rather than fractionally before it. Also, watch how he bounces the shaft-arm angle just a tiny bit open at the start of the downswing (look at :13-15). That started about the time of his injury. About halfway down (:19 or so) he looks like a guy who’s slightly over the top–high right side, etc.
Ditto here. Love the guy.
Now that I can believe.
Absolutely true–that’s one aspect of his swing that hasn’t changed even slightly since his younger days.
Let me get this straight: Somebody insists Tiger is clearly the most superior athlete to ever play golf, and if anybody disagrees with that–even if that person posts specific examples of multisport athletes that show this to be unlikely–it must be because he’s a racist? Bite me.
What “records” do you need to be set? Hale Irwin was all all-conference d-back in the Big 8 (now the Big 12). Nicklaus played freshman basketball at Ohio State. Snead was a ridiculous athlete. And so on.
Most people still seem to believe in the “superior human being” crap. This comes from exposure to gym class in middle school when some people develop faster than others, and a few more start copying their older brothers doing pushups and running. Sure, genetic freaks exist, but for the most part, you good at what you do. Flexibility is as much talent as is strength. You cannot discredit a necessary abiltiy to perform an act. Comparing Tiger > Snead > Phelps > Yang Wei, is apples to oranges.
Well said, and that is the result of great physique + great patience + great swing mechanics. I find the head movement very interesting, not straight back and through, how he brings it back to his right when he whips the club through impact with strong arms/forearms. Superb.
I had the pleasure of seeing his swing in person before. The television does not do him justice.
People believe the all the marketing hype surrounding Tiger. They forget that like the news both the PGA and reporters are TOLD to use the approved ‘talking points’ handed to them by corporate sponsors. Tiger does NOT have ‘natural ability’ period. He has been practicing since a very small child. That was Hogans secret too. I feel sad for those who now have to face up that they got punked about Tiger by the media. Everyone on the inside knew. Tiger also excels at mental toughness – it’s key.
Boy, are you on point or what?
First, I’m amazed at how many people don’t get the fact that the Tour office is pushing product, and players are expected to help with that–even former players who play up the “these guys are GOOD” marketing line. Well, they are “good,” but they’re not necessarily any more skilled than the guys who played 50 years ago–but if you’re running the PGA Tour, telling the truth about that doesn’t push your product, does it?
Not only that, but as you say, the marketing is aimed at portraying not only superior skill but all-around good-guyness.
Re natural ability, I’d say Tiger has basic ability, but I think you’re right that his achievement has come because of tens of thousands of practice hours, combined with a childhood where he had the advantage of doing hardly anything other than preparing to be a championship player. I’m not sure he has as much natural ability as Mickelson, but he’s more disciplined in his approach and has been very focused and very smart in what he’s worked on since he’s been on tour.
As for mental toughness, you couldn’t be more right. When Hogan and Nicklaus were playing, the top 15 or 20 guys, maybe more, had that kind of toughness and killer instinct. Among current players, it seems that TW’s about the only one. If you look at his playoff record, his match play record, and his record when paired with another player who’s around the lead in a stroke-play event, it’s amazing how many players have just handed him a win with mediocre play–by far the majority of the time.
great point pal. i agree 100 percent. Woods has incredible mental tougheness, but his long hame is not all that compared to the likes of mickleson and els..
What tiger has is this incredible mental belief that he will hole every putt etc..and inverably he does…but hell never have the ability of els..
@emncaity You could be right…I do believe I read somewhere that Tiger was average at best at other sports in high school and college. I can’t remember where I read it but believe it was a credible source. I doubt someone with Tiger’s hand-eye co-ordination was a total duffer at other persuits but, as we’ve all seen this last couple of months, the guy IS human.
@emncaity I agree, not Mickelson, or for that matter, John Daly.
Genius is 1% inspiration, and 99% perspiration. Tiger has plenty of natural talent, but it is his dogged practice that makes him the best. Talent can only get you so far, but utilization of that talent can get you everywhere.
Now, to say he doesn’t have any natural talent is wrong, he does. He has a mental toughness, an ability to visualize shots, and an amazing knack to excel when the time is right. But you are correct, his practice (he practices about 10 hours a day) is why he’s the best.
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